OT: Mornington Crescent

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:08:33 -0500, "Gregory Topov"

I would like to know when a particular claim in "Mornington Crescent"
is ruled illegal, and what is to be done about rendering illegal

moves

into their nearest legal cousin. What happens when players of the
game do not agree about the legality or illegality of a particular

move?
If it is a tournament game, the T.A. (Tournament Adjudicator) must decide.
He is naturally permitted to consult the "Official Mornington Crescent Rules
and Players Handbook" which he will undoubtedly bring with him. In the
event of an erroneous judgment, aggrieved players affected by a wrong
decision can submit a written appeal to the MC High Board within 30 days of
the game, and seek to have the results adjusted. In informal games in club
settings, the local Club Director can be consulted or requested to
adjudicate, but most experienced MC players will usually try to resolve any
disputes about rules amongst themselves.
--
Gregory Topov
Grandmaster and Author of "Mornington Crescent Simplified and Explained"
http://www.geocities.com/verdrahciretop/mc1.html

You know, at this juncture, I've almost become convinced that the
purpose of the game might have a point other than simple intellectual
diversion, after all.

-- Roy L

2004-12-11 06:30:23 UTC

I would like to know when a particular claim in "Mornington Crescent"
is ruled illegal, and what is to be done about rendering illegal moves
into their nearest legal cousin. What happens when players of the
game do not agree about the legality or illegality of a particular move?

If it is a tournament game,

What if it is not a tournament game .... ?

Post by Gregory Topov
... the T.A. (Tournament Adjudicator) must decide.
He is naturally permitted to consult the "Official Mornington Crescent Rules
and Players Handbook" which he will undoubtedly bring with him.

No URL, nor an entry in the Library of Congress for it. Sorry.

Post by Gregory Topov
... In the event of an erroneous judgment, aggrieved players affected by
a wrong decision can submit a written appeal to the MC High Board

The what? No URL seems to available for "MC High Board."

Post by Gregory Topov
... within 30 days of the game, and seek to have the results adjusted.
In informal games in club settings,

What if neither tournament game nor an informal game in a club ?

Post by Gregory Topov
... the local Club Director can be consulted or requested to adjudicate,
but most experienced MC players will usually try to resolve any
disputes about rules amongst themselves.

How will non-experienced MC players resolve disputes ?

Post by Gregory Topov
Gregory Topov
Grandmaster and Author of "Mornington Crescent Simplified and Explained"
http://www.geocities.com/verdrahciretop/mc1.html

I suggest that you find an answer other than "Minsky can't solve it."

Post by r***@telus.net
You know, at this juncture, I've almost become convinced that the
purpose of the game might have a point other than simple intellectual
diversion, after all.

Why could Royls not say MC has a point other than simple ignorance ?

- regards
- jb

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Gregory Topov

2004-12-11 14:55:51 UTC

No URL, nor an entry in the Library of Congress for it. Sorry.

I'm not surprised to read this, because Mornington Crescent resources are
known for their obscurity, and are notoriously difficult to obtain because
they are usually printed by exclusive publishers. As far as literature on
the subject is concerned, Samuel J. McAllister's "An Elementary Mornington
Crescent Primer" (sixth edition, 1975), is generally regarded as the best
introductory guide for beginners, although unfortunately it can be very
difficult to obtain, and is not listed in the Library of Congress system
either. Although most authorities recommend the fifth edition of Bradley
Taylor's "Advanced Mornington Crescent: Improving Your Tactical Surprise and
Positional Advantage" (1982) for intermediate players, this book has been
out of print for some time. In my opinion, it has been surpassed by
grandmaster Maxwell Beverege's excellent two volume set, "Comprehensive
Mornington Crescent: A Champion Tells All" (Birmingham Press, 1989). But
this excellent work is also available only from exclusive and specialist
game bookstores, and local IFMCP societies! Serious players may wish to
subscribe to Mornington Crescent Journal. Subscription is only available by
invitation from the Society headquarters in Birmingham, and following the
successful completion of Master level exam. Some resources are available on
the internet, but these typically don't do justice to the nuances of the
game, and tend to be incomplete and erroneous on the finer points of the
game.

One of the most widely played variations of Mornington Crescent is the
British Standard edition of 1982, popularized by Parker & Parker.
Regrettably, most superior literature on traditional Mornington Crescent is
available only from official suppliers and distributors for the I.F.M.C.P.
(International Federation for Mornington Crescent Players), and is not
readily available outside Britain due to international trade restrictions.
However, several resources on the British Standard Version are readily
available from Amazon, notably "Stovold's Mornington Crescent Almanac 2002"
by Graeme Garden (ISBN 0752847295) and "The Little Book of Mornington
Crescent" by Tim Brooke-Taylor et al (ISBN 0752844229). These books are only
modestly useful, and before purchasing them readers should be aware that
they only address the British Standard, with play limited to the places
allowed by the Third London Convention Code, and so are not at all useful
for games played under International Rules.

I would be surprised if there is no entry in the Library of Congress for
these two titles. Despite their limitations, I recommend that you consider
purchasing or reading them, since they are among the only books readily
available to the public.

2004-12-11 15:49:38 UTC

... the T.A. (Tournament Adjudicator) must decide. He is naturally
permitted to consult the "Official Mornington Crescent Rules
and Players Handbook" which he will undoubtedly bring with him.

No URL, nor an entry in the Library of Congress for it. Sorry.

I'm not surprised to read this, because Mornington Crescent resources
are known for their obscurity, and are notoriously difficult to obtain
because they are usually printed by exclusive publishers.

Which would not prevent their referencing on Internet URLs...

Post by Gregory Topov
As far as literature on the subject is concerned, Samuel J. McAllister's
"An Elementary Mornington Crescent Primer" (sixth edition, 1975),
is generally regarded as the best introductory guide for beginners,
although unfortunately it can be very difficult to obtain, and is not listed
in the Library of Congress system either.

How do you -know- that it is not listed in the Library of Congress ?

Post by Gregory Topov
Although most authorities recommend the fifth edition of Bradley
Taylor's "Advanced Mornington Crescent: Improving Your Tactical
Surprise and Positional Advantage" (1982) for intermediate players,
this book has been out of print for some time. In my opinion, it has been
surpassed by grandmaster Maxwell Beverege's excellent two volume set,
"Comprehensive Mornington Crescent: A Champion Tells All" (Birmingham
Press, 1989). But this excellent work is also available only from exclusive
and specialist game bookstores, and local IFMCP societies! Serious players
may wish to subscribe to Mornington Crescent Journal. Subscription is only
available by invitation from the Society headquarters in Birmingham, and
following the successful completion of Master level exam. Some resources
are available on the internet, but these typically don't do justice to the
nuances of the game, and tend to be incomplete and erroneous on the
finer points of the game.
One of the most widely played variations of Mornington Crescent is the
British Standard edition of 1982, popularized by Parker & Parker.
Regrettably, most superior literature on traditional Mornington Crescent
is available only from official suppliers and distributors for the I.F.M.C.P.
(International Federation for Mornington Crescent Players), and is not
readily available outside Britain due to international trade restrictions.
However, several resources on the British Standard Version are readily
available from Amazon, notably "Stovold's Mornington Crescent Almanac 2002"
by Graeme Garden (ISBN 0752847295) and "The Little Book of Mornington
Crescent" by Tim Brooke-Taylor et al (ISBN 0752844229).

Under Tim Brooke-Taylor:
The goodies book of criminal records. PN6175.B743
The goodies file PN6175.B744
Rule Britannia : the ways and world of the true
British gentleman & patriot DA118.B74 1983

Under Graeme Garden:
A sense of the past DA1.G34 1985

Under Bradley Taylor:
Wisconsin where they row : a history of varsity
rowing at the University of Wisconsin GV807.U57T39 2005

Three strikes and you're out. No hits on the titles being claimed.
Maxwell Beverege has none, which renders you out on foul ball rule.

Post by Gregory Topov
These books are only modestly useful, and before purchasing them
readers should be aware that they only address the British Standard,
with play limited to the places allowed by the Third London Convention
Code, and so are not at all useful for games played under International Rules.

How is the game Mornington Crescent distinguished from racism?

Post by Gregory Topov
I would be surprised if there is no entry in the Library of Congress for
these two titles.

Be surprised, then. Learning something every day, these days ?

Post by Gregory Topov
Despite their limitations, I recommend that you consider purchasing or
reading them, since they are among the only books readily available
to the public.

So the game is actually "Mornington Cre$cent" ? And not generally
a game with comprehensive rules readily available to the public ? So
not a game which garners very much interest ? And thereby not a game
deserving of very much publication ? How is MC different from Nomic ?
It strikes me that this MC Game qualifies for the "heights" of rudeness.
Especially with Tim Brooke-Taylor's title -concerning- "Rule Britannia."
Perhaps a dose of Lyndon LaRouche's _Executive_Intelligence_Review_?

- regards
- jb

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FORMER VICE PRESIDENT WALTER MONDALE SAYS WHITES GROWING ANGRY
OVER IMMIGRATION AND THAT GOVERNMENT SHOULD PAY ATTENTION
A great many politically moderate Minnesotans, the polling found,
think immigrants represent a drain on the public schools, are failing
to assimilate and get too many government handouts. When I say this
stuff, I get called a racist. Is Liberal Democrat Walter Mondale a racist
too or are we both simply "right?" - Hal Turner www.halturnershow.com
http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5129537.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gregory Topov

2004-12-11 16:07:26 UTC

Post by Gregory Topov
However, several resources on the British Standard Version are readily
available from Amazon, notably "Stovold's Mornington Crescent Almanac 2002"
by Graeme Garden (ISBN 0752847295) and "The Little Book of Mornington
Crescent" by Tim Brooke-Taylor et al (ISBN 0752844229).

Three strikes and you're out. No hits on the titles being claimed.
Maxwell Beverege has none, which renders you out on foul ball rule.

Post by Gregory Topov
I would be surprised if there is no entry in the Library of Congress for
these two titles.

Be surprised, then. Learning something every day, these days ?

Dear sir, you are sadly mistaken. Please check the following two links,
from which it is evident that both titles are available for purchase from
Amazon, precisely as I have claimed.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0752847295
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0752844229
I rest my case.

2004-12-12 06:47:49 UTC

Post by Gregory Topov
I would be surprised if there is no entry in the Library of Congress
for these two titles.

Be surprised, then. Learning something every day, these days ?

Please excuse my negligence in not conducting the expected
"google" search, which in fact does bring up those URLs and that
they are being listed therein with the identical ISBNs. I am thinking
of several "layers" in playability for MC. Publically-accessible info,
such as in libraries, offers the layer of apprehension which qualifies
a game as generally playable. Otherwise the game becomes more
exclusive which, as you keep reiterating, is very much the character
of "Mornington Crescent." Then, as you have listed, one may acquire
privately published information which is not (yet) carried by libraries.
Additionally, one would need to join certain societies (and, we may also
expect, certain -secret- societies whose existence is being kept secret)
which leads to the never-ending "pagoda" story of Russian Dolls and/or
Chinese Boxes. To summarize, the game has been made non-explicit,
even to the point where "play" is not clearly defined, which renders the
MC endeavors non-mathematical. I suppose this was its design aesthetic
from inception. So MC gatherings are "cultic" and do not offer a WFF.

Having proffered these caveats, with respect to the proposition as
given above, you may indeed be "surprised" that LC entries do not exist.
For that particular point I was not sadly mistaken, so you have erred.
I am presently ruminating the implications of an experienced MC player
who, to this day, is unaware of the unofficial nature of MC literature.
The prior play has become so privatized that its players are oblivious.
Still no "google" URL for Maxwell Beverege other than name-dropping.
In general, game rules references cannot obtain validity simply by the
activity of name-dropping. "Nontransparent games" could no more be
a valid game than the "private language" could be a language. I don't
suppose that MC players have given much thought to their enterprise.
While MC could satisfy -some- of the OED's definitions of "game" there
is also a certain key and critical definition in which MC does not abide:

6. d. Position or advantage in play. ( calculation for end-imminence )

- regards
- jb

Jim Gillogly

2004-12-11 23:59:24 UTC

How do you -know- that it is not listed in the Library of Congress ?

He could have checked the catalog at http://catalog.loc.gov/ .
I just did. It's not there. In fact, although they have a
number of hits for "Mornington", none is for Mornington Crescent.

They do show go books, of course, including ol' Oscar Korschelt.

--
Jim Gillogly

Gregory Topov

2004-12-12 02:06:44 UTC

Post by Jim Gillogly

Post by Gregory Topov
As far as literature on the subject is concerned, Samuel J.

McAllister's

Post by Jim Gillogly

Post by Gregory Topov
"An Elementary Mornington Crescent Primer" (sixth edition, 1975),
is generally regarded as the best introductory guide for beginners,
although unfortunately it can be very difficult to obtain, and is not listed
in the Library of Congress system either.

How do you -know- that it is not listed in the Library of Congress ?

He could have checked the catalog at http://catalog.loc.gov/ .
I just did. It's not there. In fact, although they have a
number of hits for "Mornington", none is for Mornington Crescent.

Most books on Mornington Crescent are specialist publications with very
limited print runs, and are not available for purchase by the public unless
you are registered as a member of a local chapter of the I.M.C.F., and order
it directly through the club. For similar reasons, these books are usually
not listed in the Library of Congress. Two exceptions are the books on the
British Standard Version that I have already mentioned, "Stovold's
Mornington Crescent Almanac 2002" by Graeme Garden (ISBN 0752847295) and
"The Little Book of Mornington Crescent" by Tim Brooke-Taylor et al (ISBN
0752844229), both of which are available from Amazon via the following
links:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0752847295
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0752844229

Laury

2004-12-21 22:04:40 UTC

"Jim Gillogly" <***@acm.org> wrote in message news:***@acm.org...
| On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 15:49:38 +0000, - wrote:
| > "Gregory Topov" <***@despammed.com> wrote:
| >> As far as literature on the subject is concerned, Samuel J.
| >> McAllister's "An Elementary Mornington Crescent Primer" (sixth
| >> edition, 1975), is generally regarded as the best introductory
guide
| >> for beginners, although unfortunately it can be very difficult to
| >> obtain, and is not listed in the Library of Congress system either.
| >
| > How do you -know- that it is not listed in the Library of
| > Congress ?
|
| He could have checked the catalog at http://catalog.loc.gov/ .
| I just did. It's not there. In fact, although they have a
| number of hits for "Mornington", none is for Mornington Crescent.

With respect to our non-British friends, I must point out that tha
Mornenton Cresent is as ancient a game as Reyal Tenis and so the source
book was not made available to the LoC for the simple reason that the
LoC did not exist, indeed, Congress, yea verily the US of A, did not
exist when the game was first invented. Of the remaining 3 copies of
the book, 2 are in the private collection of HM the Queen, and the third
was bought for an astonishing sum by a certain Mrs Trellis. It is
believed that the sum paid exceeded the National Debt of the
Principality of Cymru by a considerble amount.

There have been numerous attempts to render the obscure notation of the
game into a machine-storable version, but the nuances of degree of
pressure of a quill pen using a soot and swan's blood ink on hand-oiled
Red Kite vellum has defeated this. The Herald At Arms has offered to
undertake this task, but the sum asked, and the likely timescale has
proved prohibitive, not to mention the adamant opposition of certain
misguided wild bird groups.

I suppose it is a sign of the times that certain individuals will expect
instant access to this, one of the most ancient of games, the rules of
which take generations to master.

However, all are welcome to dabble in the childrens' version which has
become popular in the past few centuries, or even the version [to which
the 1975 manuscript mentioned above refers] which has been allowed to be
played on the BBC Home Service in recent times in a bid to persuade the
hoi-polloi that they have equal rights with the aristocracy. [Though
how one could compare this one-time 'underground game', sponsored by a
jazz musician of all people, and learnable in a mere 15 months, and
played on a board modelled on the Underground, with the Noble and
Ancient True Sport originally known as Mowre Nunne Tungue Croix Hunde
which was developed over 15 generations by the Lords of the Manors of
the Domesday Rotenburrows, and involved the round up and capture of
blasphemers, liars and charlatans in the fields, triqs and alleys of the
Cittyes of Lambesbath, Westeminister and Lunnedom by screaming hordes of
newly knighted Lords of The Realm, I cannot understand.]
--
.^. Worshippefille Laury, 18th Flooke of Southe Bretagne
(-H-)
\=/

i***@durge.org

2004-12-22 02:02:43 UTC